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 Post subject: Chopper Kit's for Rebels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Jan 18, 2009
I'm looking around here and besides me there is only a few who dare RAKE the front end like I'm doing... rebelsoxuk, Shadow Shack to name a few..

I often thought that wouldn't it be cool to have a Rebel Chopper Kit available?? or am I just not seeing any?? Literally something right out of the box where all you do it move your engine over to it and put all the parts ON. Do a little re-wiring and your DONE..

They have or had Trike Kits.. Why not a Chopper Kit?

I should be on mine SOON.. I have all the stuff to do it.. steel, welder, angle finder, bender.. Just waiting for a Bud to visit who has built many in the past so I don't get any calculations WRONG.. that would stink!

Rob= :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Motorcycle: 2005 Yamaha Vstar 650
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Country: USA
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Because 90% of the people who buy a Rebel only have it for a couple months before they move onto another scoot. Really no market to justify the tooling costs to create kits.

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 Post subject: True..
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Thats true.. But dang there is just so many Rebels and Nighthawks out there that need restoration and maybe it could wake up some new builders/riders. I see so many people on those 250cc Moped's lately it's not even FUNNY.. I think a Chopper would look cooler if anything..

There was an AD in Craigslist with a guy who had something like 7 Nighthawks and 2 Rebels (all 250cc) on a trailer and he was selling the entire LOT.. (I forget how much) I'm guessing they were all State Training Bikes.. I think it said that in the AD..

Rob= :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Jul 2, 2008
Country: USA
State/Province: TN
City: Camden
I searched all over for a simple bolt on chopper kit for the Rebel. They make one for a 250 Yamaha but nothing for a Rebel.
The perfect set up would be a frame kit where everything transfers over but make it a hardtail with a sprung seat. Add longer fork tubes, cables and brake hose.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Apr 3, 2007
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IMHO, "chopper" and "kit" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Motorcycle: 08 Versys, 97 C-10, 79 KZ650
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: NC
City: Newport
Wonder what the liability on that kit would be?

Dan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
Seegar Cycle used to import a Rebel kit, but last I knew, they didn't. Shack may have a line on one, but if you're building a frame, there's not much point to a kit.

Though for the record, it's not "dare" to do it. I've done it numerous times for friends or customers. I don't do it to my own bikes because I think it's butt-ugly, but I don't complain when other people want it. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:55 am 
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Joined: Oct 14, 2010
Motorcycle: Rebel CA125
Rebel: 125
Country: Norway
City: Sandnessjoen
Sorry to bring this up again. But does the triple trees from another bike fit the rebel?
Would be nice to get an different angle on the front :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Joined: May 7, 2008
BluecollarBobbers.com, has some nice kits


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Rebel: 450
Country: UK
City: London
88nightrider wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again. But does the triple trees from another bike fit the rebel?
Would be nice to get an different angle on the front :D


Take a look at http://www.rebelclub.org.uk/DIY%20Info.htm for a list of forks/steering stems and other bits that are transferable to the Rebel 450.

sox

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
88nightrider wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again. But does the triple trees from another bike fit the rebel?


450: yes.

250: no.

If you want someone else's trees on a 250 (or a 125), you'll need to get a neck from an appropriate frame and replace the neck on your frame. This will also give you an opportunity to change the rake, if that's what you're after.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Oct 30, 2010
tbolt wrote:
IMHO, "chopper" and "kit" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.


I agree with tbolt. If I may use your word that only a "few would dare."
Honestly if your going hardcore chopper you should atleast build it not buy it and slap it on! But that's my opinion, don't mean squat. RIDE ON!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:42 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
RebelJill wrote:
Honestly if your going hardcore chopper you should atleast build it not buy it and slap it on! But that's my opinion, don't mean squat. RIDE ON!!!


Other than the word "hardcore" (nothing personal. "Hardcore," like "epic," is a word that, due to unparalleled overuse, no longer has any meaning whatsoever. :lol: ), I tend to agree with you.

"I wanted a chopper, but I settled for a swapper."

:lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.S.A.
State/Province: NV
City: Las VLX-as
Really, what difference does it make if you order parts made to spec versus mating parts from other bikes? Whatever time spent fabricating brackets and such is simply replaced by waiting for the goods to arrive in the mail. Is a bobber less of a bobber because the rear fender is a kit part rather than a trailer fender? Is that kitted bobber less of a bobber than an OCC bobber? At least the kitted bike started out as a stock bike, unlike the pile of aftermarket parts that the OCC bike is assembled from.

But where this point really shines on: you'd better know what you're doing if you're grafting other bike parts to your ride...if you don't, the spec route is definitely the safer way to go.

With that in mind ---

88nightrider wrote:
But does the triple trees from another bike fit the rebel?
Would be nice to get an different angle on the front


Check out www.thechopperunderground.com someone there has a few lists (by manufacturer, i.e. one list for all Hondas, one for all Kawasakis, etc) of compatible axles and steering stems.

AFAIK the 250 Nighthawk and 250 Rebel stems are interchangeable. There might be something from the UJM era that can carry over as well (perhaps the Rebel-predecessor CM250 or CM185/200 TwinStar), but as far as buying a raked tree for another bike to swap onto the stock Rebel frame?

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Seriously. Most of the 5 degree raked trees out there give up at least three inches of trail. The Rebel has 4.3 inches, so a raked treeon a Rebel yields a 1.3 inch trail dimension at best. The shortest OEM trail out there is 3", some bike builders will go so far and claim that 2" is safe.

The bottom line here is a too short of a trail dimension means you'll have an unstable ride, the faster you go the more the front end will react to the road and at some point it will actually begin to oscillate, i.e. it becomes a tank slapper.

A raked tree only works safely with a raked frame, more rake in the frame yields more trail. The raked tree does two things: 1> allows even more fork length and 2> reduces the trail dimension back closer to what a stock bike might have.

Bikes like the VT600 Shadow VLX or VS800 Intruder have generous OEM trail dimensions in excess of six inches (the V2K Vulcan has over seven inches), so you can afford the loss on such bikes. Knock off three inches of trail from any of those three bikes and it's still safe and sane. Knock off three inches from four inches and you have a death trap waiting for a place to happen...you'd essentially be playing Russian Roulette with all six bullets in the revolver.

Your best bet for raking a Rebel is sending your frame to Ken at Jack's Rebel Warehouse {EDIT - just saw you're not in the U.S.}, for a couple hundred bucks he'll cut/reshape it to whatever angle you want. Ballpark figure without crunching numbers? Add another two degrees of rake for every extra inch of fork length you want.

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Last edited by Shadow Shack on Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Country: USA
State/Province: VA
City: Roanoke
If ya throw 4 or 6 over fork tubes on any bike, ya need to rake the bike, either with raked trees or a raked neck. Not telling you your wrong, shadow shack, just to clarify the point you made about extending the forks. A six over front end is gonna need some help rake wise..or a place to carry a cinder block for your kickstand.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:44 pm 
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"cinder block for your kickstand" LOL, good one!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.S.A.
State/Province: NV
City: Las VLX-as
henryinva wrote:
If ya throw 4 or 6 over fork tubes on any bike, ya need to rake the bike, either with raked trees or a raked neck.


Again, a raked tree isn't always the answer. First and foremost, trail dimensions need to be explored.

Quote:
Not telling you your wrong, shadow shack, just to clarify the point you made about extending the forks. A six over front end is gonna need some help rake wise..or a place to carry a cinder block for your kickstand.


Yep, no arguement there.

However...to an extent raking can be ignored. You can add a couple inches of fork length without much of an issue --- slightly higher tilt on the frame up front but nothing catastrophic. This of course can also be countered by dropping an inch or two off the rear. Voila, no frame mods, extra "rake" by default (tilting the frame up at the front and down at the back = more rake/trail). Sort of a "beginner chopper mod" :wink:

Just to show an extreme example of this concept, here's a bike with six over forks on a stock tree/frame and four inches knocked off the rear...and the stock kickstand (no cinder block required :wink: ):

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That's Denny Berg's personal bike, a 99 Shadow VLX. Berg is one of the two minds behind all the custom showbikes that can be seen on the Cobra website (re: Cobra exhaust and accessories).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Country: USA
State/Province: VA
City: Roanoke
yeah, but ya see how fubar'd his lower rails look. I mean it looks like the bike is climbing a mountain on flatland..And I really dont care what the guys name is, it looks wacky the way its sittin..I could drop a couple names hereof one or two custom builders who's bikes I wouldnt ride 50 feet on.

Its an opinion thing to me, ya do that, ya just couldnt be bothered to do it the right way, and lower rails going uphill at a 15-30 degree angle just looks half arsed to me..Just a lazy mans way out. whats that doing to the engines oil level and such..ya throw an extra half quart in there to make up for the engine now going uphill 1 1/2 inches in its length? Just looks lazy, out of whack and more or less done in a hurry cuz A) ya dont know what yer doing, B) ya dont have the funds to do it the right way C)yer a lazy hack or D) ya wouldnt know the right way to do it if it smacked ya upside the head..

My feelings are, if yer not going to do it the right way, dont do it. just makes ya look ignorant to the ones that do.

My .02, not an all being, all knowing attitude, just my .02..

It gets back to seeing a lot of guys with cinder blocks in their backpacks or looking for high curbs, so they can park their bike thingy...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Country: USA
State/Province: VA
City: Roanoke
Shadow Shack wrote:
henryinva wrote:
If ya throw 4 or 6 over fork tubes on any bike, ya need to rake the bike, either with raked trees or a raked neck.


Again, a raked tree isn't always the answer. First and foremost, trail dimensions need to be explored.


Okay, so you are skirting the issue. Your saying, drop the rear end.. That influences neck rake angle. and that is the correct thing to do when your TRAIL figures are too big. Changing the neck angle is the thing to do.

CHANGE THE NECK ANGLE..

Your squirmin around saying cut the neck or going with rake trees to the nth degree..

Call it what ya want, dropping the rear changes the neck angle. Letting all the air out of the rear tire changes it too. sticking a 21 front tire on changes it too..Literally leaning back on the seat or sitting further back on it changes it too...

Moral is, 3 inches of trail, however you do it. Thats the goal. Do not go shorter than that. You go negative trail, your riding a shopping cart..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Aug 13, 2009
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State/Province: VA
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hercman wrote:
Because 90% of the people who buy a Rebel only have it for a couple months before they move onto another scoot. Really no market to justify the tooling costs to create kits.



THE correct answer to Berkels question, by the way..

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