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 Post subject: The Rules, Rationales
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
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City: Vidalia
As noted here:

http://www.rebel250.com/rebelforum/view ... hp?t=10788

The Rules have been reworked to be a bit clearer and easier to digest. However, I don't believe in being heavy-handed without reason, and to that end, I felt it fair to try to explain the rules, since they had always borne long rationales in the past.

Thus, there is this thread, for those who might wonder how or why a Rule came to be, or perhaps wonder just what it is I mean when I say "no profanity."

So this thread has been created to explain things. Yes, most of these rationales can be taken as long rants; after all, I _do_ need to blow off some steam, what with constantly having to edit, correct, delete, cajole, etc---

simply because some people absolutely can't follow the very simple concept of "Disney rated" conversation.


So here we go again :roll:

Yes; there are rules. There have always been rules. I hate enacting rules, as I generally feel that peer pressure to maintain a level of decorum is sufficient in most any group.

But, as with almost all online forums, people jump in without regard for any existing culture already in place, fail to take any notice of such culture-- in truth, the bulk of them are completely baffled by the idea that the forum might have actually existed before they joined.

So, for a bit of history:

This forum has been around in one form or another for roughly ten years at the time of this posting. It's well-established, and we like it nice and family-friendly. There are about ten billion other places that _aren't_ family friendly; and roughly half of those forums devote a great deal of time to reveling in their own filth, touting their garbage as some kind of 'sophistication' that demonstrates their maturity.

That's why those places have so many members--- hundreds of adults, but no grown-ups.

This is not one of those places.

Because so many people join short-term and leave, or join without regard to the rules or active culture of this board (or most others that they may join), I put up a special announcement highlighting the guiding rules of this board. Sure, there are the 'general' rules that come packed-in and you can find them easily enough; they are the rules that almost any board pays at least lip-service to-- but there are rules specific to our board that are designed to keep it the board that you joined.

Because I both loathe to simply slap up rules and driven to be thorough, I have always tried to explain each rule in great detail so that the reasoning behind it may be better understood.

That has the unfortunate side-effect of making the simple rules an exceedingly long read, so I've decided to try a different approach:

The rules, simplified, will be posted in a permanent announcement. After the software change, I will try to arrange it so that new members will be directed specifically to these rules and be required to sign off on them before their membership is completed. Yes; I know: we all find those things, scroll to the bottom, and click "I accept" and move on.

But this way, it's your own cussed fault. It also removes any traces of guilt I might feel for deleting accounts or placing bans, but hey-- I do love perks ;)

There will be a link in the simplified rules thread that leads directly to this thread: the rationale behind the rules. Anyone with any questions can find their answers for themselves, or be directed here easily enough.

So, that being said, let's move on.

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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:47 pm 
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City: Vidalia
RULE 1


Rule 1 wrote:
1) Be civil, one-hundred percent of the time. No flaming, no name-calling, no insults, no attempts to get under someone else's skin. No profanity, no vlugarity, no epithets. This rule, like all the others, applies to _all_ sections of this board, including the Joker's Cafe'.


This rule has been in effect for a long time; longer than I've been running the place, in fact. The number one reason that newbies have declared for their joining our forum is directly attributable to this rule.

A lot of short-term members (those that drop in, make a few posts, and disappear, apparently forever) seem to have the same problem with this rule:

They protest with complaints of "free speech" and "censorship," and "public domain."

So let's first go over what those really mean:

Absolutely nothing.

At least, in the context of an internet forum. Right off the bat:
Free Speech is a right that guarantees your right to say anything you want, so long is it's not to deceive, libel, or incite violence, anywhere on any public property in the United States.

That's why it's meaningless here. It doesn't apply to any country that doesn't subscribe to it (yes; there are countries outside the US. Who knew?). The internet is there, too. There's only one internet. Get used to it being censored.

The second reason that "Free Speech" doesn't apply here:
it applies to any public property in the US. Assuming that, as we are on a US server and the site itself is the property of US citizens and is administrated and moderated by a group of Americans and one guy from America, Jr, might well make this site considerable as "American soil--"

That does _not_ alter the fact that the site itself is Private Property. the entire internet is like that. Each and every site that you can navigate toward is _owned_, and is therefore private property.

"But I hert in school that thuh innerweb iz publik propidy..."

What that means is that anyone-- any member of the public-- has the right to set up his own site on the internet, where he can establish his own rules, and allow people to do or say anything within the confine of his own rules (and the legality of the governing nation, etc).

That's what that means. It doesn't mean that my board is public property, and it doesn't mean that I can't disallow things that are offensive to me specifically or to the public in general. Specifically, it very much means that I or my appointed Staff get to make the decisions about what's offensive; you don't.

Free Speech doesn't let you show pornographic movies to fourth-graders, and it doesn't let you get vulgar on my website, period. Go ahead; ask your lawyer.

The next issue is "censorship." I have to admit, I am loathe to censor anyone, simply because of the possibility that it sends the message "this is a personal attack on you; shut up now." I don't like to send that message, as the reality is more along the lines of "you know what the rules are, and you know how grown-ups behave, and here you have publicly demonstrated an inability follow the rules that you agreed to follow as part of seeking membership and that you lack the adult ability to act reasonably. However, I value your membership too much to delete your account and your entries, and am willing to chalk this up to stress and a momentary lapse in judgement. Let's just get shed of it, put it behind us, and move along."

Truth be told, when it comes to being deleted/edited/moderated, etc-- you asked for it. Yes; you did. I'm sorry-- maybe I'm too old for modern America. I remember when America was like most of the other countries, and people understood that they were responsible for their own actions. I know that the last couple of generations have grown up without the stiffling concepts of remorse, forethought, guilt, or personal responsibility, so let me explain it in simple terms:

There are rules. Going out of your way to join any group implies by your own actions your willingness to submit to the rules of that group. The conduct rules of our group here should be really easy to figure out, as our conversations don't just 'vanish;' they're posted here and remain here for years. To make it even easier, the Rules themselves are posted simply and cleanly, and there has always been a thread (the predecessor to this thread, in fact) that has explained the rules in great detail. It has always been easy to find, and the rules have always been very easy to follow.

So when you join, you are agreeing to accept the responsibility to play by these rules and you are proclaiming an understanding that things outside these rules may be met with some form of discipline.

Then you go and do something in violation of those rules-- in enough violation that corrective or disciplinary action was taken. So whose fault is that, exactly? I know; I know. We're working on getting 'shame' erased from our cultural consciousness like we're doing with 'personal responsibility'...

So that's it: the summation of why any protest of action taken against posts that violate the rules based on "Free Speech" or "Public Domain" are utter garbage, and the explanation of why both sides of the argument are complicit in any act of "censorship" on a private forum.


Moving on, we find other angles of the "be civil" rule. First up are the other members of the board. Who are these faceless people?

In most places online, you are nothing more than the name you gave yourself. On this site, we expect our members to understand that is both ridiculous and patently stupid. Obviously there are other very real people behind all this. Treat them as such.

Sure, they have no 'faces,' but it's not like you've never used a phone before. And, those of you my age or more might remember when the mail was used for something beyond advertising. Once upon a time, people used to actually sit down and write out-- by hand, on paper-- messages to one another and pass them along through the United States Propaganda Service. Of course, we called it the "Postal Service" back then, since it hadn't yet been fully given over to advertising.

The point here is that the idea of dealing with a real person you'll never see is strange to _no one_, period.

Everyone's face-- yours included-- is the name they've chosen. Abbreviating it-- particularly a long name-- is completely acceptable, so long as the abbreviation is not blatantly insulting. For example, someone may chose the name "Cocker Spaniel Defeater!" I can't imagine why, but it's possible. There is at least one 'shortening' of this name that there is no real justification for using beyond blatant insult. Got it? Good. Don't do it.

To be sure, you can do whatever you want to your own face, and good-natured teasing from other members is fine with the admin, unless the recipient is unhappy with it, of course.

And yes, that's all part of 'being civil one-hundred percent of the time.' Yes, it was really, really long, and that's not even a dent in the surface of what it means. The best to way to sum it up would be something like:

Be nice. Always.

It pains me to think that this post might not be enough to drive home the point, but I suppose it's possible. There are some real knotheads out there.

Anyway, on to Rule 2

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
RULE 2

Rule 2 wrote:
Keep it clean. No sex, no profanity, no vulgarity, no exceptions. I _strongly_ encourage you to read the additional details on this rule, just so you're not surprised when your "switch one letter" profanity gets you bounced.


That's pretty simple. Actually, this is just another aspect of being civil.

Here's the deal:

There are many significant things that attract new members to this board and keep the old members coming back. One of these things is the ease with which members of all experience levels and backgrounds-- technical or otherwise-- are accepted on equal footing.

One is the vast amount of technical data, both riding and maintenance related, that resides here.

One is the clean, civil atmosphere that we maintain.

That is the single most important rule of this board: keep it clean! Despite what the constant downward spiral of television, movies, and general discipline in children, profanity is _not_ mature, it is _not_ civil, it is _not_ sophisticated, and on this board, it is _not_ acceptable. Ever.

There may be things that you don't mind you're kids hearing, or perhaps don't care if your pastor hears your kids saying them to his kids. Your lack of decency may be normal in your world, but it's impolite and offensive to the rest of us. We're here to discuss riding, not reproduction.

And nothing burns me up more than the number of people that join here and announce publicly "I really love this ^*)&) place! It's not all &Y*(^)_)_@#ed up and ^&*((_trashy like so many other *&()*&&%$$ sites I've seen! You guys keep it so &**&%^%&( clean and friendly here!"

Really. I'm just astounded. It's like they don't even pay attention to what falls out of their mouths... :roll:

It's not even useful! Seriously! Let's analyze the following sentence:

Yesterday, I was riding my ^*&^%& bike and this %^%&*% idiot pulls his big-@#$%$$ Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly $%$% killed me!

What, exactly, does the profanity do here, other than irritate your hosts and help to ensure that younger folks considering riding are not able to view our site from any system with a nanny-bot in place? This includes public libraries, hospitals, work-systems, and far more home systems that most "sophisticated, cosmopolitan garbage-junkies" can be made to believe. I myself was locked out of this very board for two weeks! My home system was down for repair, and someone posted something that kept the work system from letting me in. (for the record, that was also the point at which I decided I needed a bit of 'help' and added some staff to this site).

But back to the subject:
What does the swearing do for that sentence? Look at that sentence completely unchanged save for the removal of the profanity itself:


Yesterday, I was riding my bike and this idiot pulls his big Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly killed me!

Not only does it say the exact same thing, it's easier to type and generally less offensive to read.

It "expresses my feelings?" No. It doesn't. Sure, a lot of folks think that, but how does it express anything?

Here. Pick a profane word you might use for this thought:

You dumb@#$#

Now take that same word and place it in these thoughts:

That's a big-@#%# pothole

That guy's a #$@%$

Holy smoking fresh-baked thin-sliced &*()^(), Batman!

How can any single word with a significant definition be used so many ways? Easy! It _can't_. Profanity and vulgarity express nothing because they have _no_ meaning.

For example, back to the sentence:


Yesterday, I was riding my ^*&^%& bike and this %^%&*% idiot pulls his big-@#$%$$ Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly $%$% killed me!

As noted,that means the exact same thing as


Yesterday, I was riding my bike and this idiot pulls his big Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly killed me!

You've added nothing with your swearing.

Suppose you _did_ want to express something:


Yesterday, I was riding my brand new bike and this complete idiot pulls his big white Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly killed me!

Well, not only is it inoffensive and civil, it actually tells you a bit more about the situation.

Try this one:


Yesterday, I was riding my freshly-restored Silver 450 and this half-blind and completely lost idiot pulls his big house-sized Winebago right out in front of me! He nearly killed me and didn't even notice!

That says a whole lot more, doesn't it? It even expresses something:

you get the idea of joy, riding a freshly-restored bike, even excited enough to share the color. The brief negative description of the driver really drives home how you feel, or at least felt, about him, and the hyperbolic description of his camper gives a feel for the psychological impact it had at that moment.

That's expressing something ;)

No. I don't care if you don't put in _any_ details at all; it's your story, after all, and most folks aren't as long-winded as I am, really. :lol:

I use this example to point out that really 'expressing' something is in the details, and profanity, as it has no meaning, doesn't have any details.

Or, to quote a lady who's opinion I always valued simply for the way she looked at things:
"Profanity is the adjective best used to describe a feeble mind."

Note the use of the singular: "the adjective." That's because no matter how you use it, combine it, or mix it with others of its ilk, it says nothing more than any other bit of swearing ever did.

If you really want to believe that it helps you express something, look at it this way:

Adjectives and adverbs are details-- they are the crayons you are going to color your picture with. Everyone gets a box of eight colors just to relay facts. Add in some adjectives, and you can get to sixteen or thirty two colors.

Use the vast volume of profanity available to us today, and you get that long-sought box of sixty-four...

all of them brown. It's like speaking in UPS trucks.

Really try to express yourself, even in the simplest terms, and you get a box full of rainbows, sunsets, thunderstorms, kettledrums, and spotlights.

I digress. I'm not here to grade anyone's writing style; they are as distinct, unique, and original as fingerprints and faces. Do what you will.

I _am_ here to tell you that profanity isn't going to cut it. I've been culling and deleting it where I found it, but with the number of members we now have, and the increase in post traffic associated with riding season, I just don't have time to do it anymore.

So here's some numbers:
It's a few minutes to 'clean up' a post.
It's less than a full second to delete the whole post.

Actual results will depend entirely on the whim of the moderator who finds it first, and are final. Continued offenses may result in loss of posting privileges. This may be temporary, or it may not. Yes, it's based on a whim, but frankly, you're the one who broke the rule; you lose the right to complain for being called on it.


For the record:

The policies governing _posting_ vulgarities also apply to _quoting_ vulgarities in replies. If you want to acknowledge garbage on my site, that's your decision. If you want to _add_ to the garbage, well then you're part of the problem. "He started it" is for five-year-olds. Even if you're just repeating it, well-- you're posting it. You're every bit as much in violation as they are, and every bit as irritating.


Again, it's long-winded, but it's the rationale behind the rule.

To further expand on what 'is' and 'is not' profanity on this board:

We all know what words fit that label. But let me also say this: Deliberate misspellings and the substitution of a letter or two---

that doesn't make it a different word, people. Let's be honest with ourselves-- this goes back to that 'personal responsibility' thing:

You knew what you were doing when you did it: you wanted to say whatever it was, in spite of it being against the rules of this house. You _know_ you wanted to, or you wouldn't have done that much work to find a way to do it. Sure; you changed it up a bit, but you didn't bother to change it enough to be something else, did you? You can protest that "it doesn't say x," but the fact is that invariably, you leave absolutely no doubt what it says, so in reality: yes! It _does_ say x!

Frankly, it says more about you than you think. It says that you have creative ability, but have decided to spend both it and your time finding new ways to create garbage. How very noble of you.

But more to the point:
In addition to the waste of your creative talents, it's a blatant work-around to violate the rules. Don't be surprised when it gets treated as such, k? ;)


Now, just because I get asked this _a lot_:

Do I swear? Do I get raunchy and vulgar?

Yes; privately, amongst a restricted audience, I am the most foul-mouthed person I know. I'm not proud of it, but there it is. I've been drinking with submariners in Kingsland who asked me to 'tone it down' I get so bad.

But I _don't_ do it in front of women, children, or strangers. No one should. It's improper, rude, and insulting to them that you think so little of their existence as to not concern yourself to their sensibilities.

This site is _private property_, but it's a public place (_place_; not property). That means that what you post here goes up before the world, which includes children, wives, preachers, and up to eight billion people who have more manners than you do. You're not welcome to insult all of them by using my board to demonstrate a limited vocabulary.

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
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City: Vidalia
RULE 3:

Rule 3 wrote:
Avatars and Ranks are not activated, nor will they be, except by pure whim of the admin staff. Don't bother asking. There are good and proven reasons for not using them.



First up: Avatars.

No. Just no. Yes; you can put your face there. But there is a lot of other stuff you can put there as well, and all of it is server-clogging eventually. That, and there are so many incompatibility issues that come up with one member's inability to see another member's or set of members' avatars, they turn (rightly, of course) to the staff to resolve this, and a lot of it just can't be resolved by us. A lot of is is software incompatibility on the parts of various users. And then we get the issues of size, resolution, storage, etc.

Further, we have, in the past, had issues with people routinely swapping out their avatar pictures for things that simply don't fly with the rules. In the end, it's just flat-out easier on us to maintain a friendly, clean environment to eliminate avatars: it reduces the opportunity to put garbage in this house, and it frees up a lot of time by not having to track down and then explain software incompatibilities over and over again.

And next-- the slightly longer one: Post Count.

You'll also notice that we don't track post counts here. There's a reason for this as well. Too many times there is too much weight given to a particular person's opinion, or too little put on another's, based simply on the number of times they've felt like saying something.

What am I talking about? I'm talking about one of the two biggest problems plaguing internet forums: easy access to a large audience and a semi-permanent repository for commentary has all but obliterated the fine line between 'wanting to say something' and 'having something to say.' The sheer bulk of insults, flame, profanity, and "me, too!"s that can be found online are an ever-expanding grave marker for a very large chunk of good sense.

This site-- honestly, I'm sure there are _many_ examples all over the net-- is designed to allow riders and wrenches, experienced and apprenticed, to communicate with one another on a perfectly even footing.

I worked very hard to make it that way over the years, and I am proud of the fact that this is one of the few places that a person can ask a question and expect a civil, sympathetic answer without a lot of carp and hashing for asking in the first place.

Tracking post counts works against that. Low post counts are too often, by general internet trend, considered to indicate a low level of knowledge on the subject, where as high post counts are too often considered to represent extensive knowledge on the subject. The reality of this is too often that the higher post counts are derived from extraneous comments, "me-too"s, or extensive double, triple, quintuple, octagoogle re-postings, extensive quotes, or even just long-running flame wars-- things that really don't do much to indicate a level or a breadth of knowledge. I used to hang out on a board for another hobby where the top six posters posted _exclusively_ in two threads: a picture-sharing thread, and a joke-sharing thread. I spent a brief amount of time on another board where the #1 poster got her position by meticulously going through the archives one Christmas break (and, given the size of the archive, I have to assume using either malicious code or enlisting an army of friends) and adding "bump" to the end of every single thread still on the server. It was her goal-- a time-killing sort of joke, and it got her the #1 spot.

See what I mean?

There is also the reverse problem: We have hundreds of experienced wrenches and riders who frequent our site, but do not frequent it regularly, and some that do peruse regularly but only post when they feel there has been a gross error or have an important note to add to a current conversation. But typically, these folks will have a low post count, and their comments are likely to be discarded by those who have not been here long enough to be familiar with their knowledge base.

There is the third problem with post counting, and that is that when an argument breaks out (we work very hard to keep that from happening), all too often post count is invoked as some kind of mystic totem, to the tune of "I must be right; I've posted ten thousand times." So what if half of those posts are requotes of someone else, or just 'return fire' in a flame war. :roll:

Yes; that was long. But post counting is an insidious thing, and as such is kind of complicated. I was a couple of years slow doing away with post count, but they're gone, and they won't be coming back. Reputation, if any, will be built on what you offer, when you offer it, not how many times you've flogged your keyboard.

For the same reason, this board does not track Ranks. Yes, it's built into the software; yes, it's easy to do. And yes, it's going to stay off. Why? because there are only three ways to get a "rank" under the software:
you age into it
You post count into it
you use a "reputation" feature that tracks member feedback toward other members.

Absolutely none of these have anything to do with the value of a member's contributions, and one of them is nothing more than a popularity contest.

All of them work directly against the goal of welcoming new riders and putting them on an even footing with more experienced individuals.

There are currently three Special Ranks: Admin, Moderator, and Librarian. These ranks are there solely so that forum users with particular issues will know who to address those issues toward. These ranks have nothing to do with riding, wrenching, or any other kind of knowledge- or experienced-based expertise. They simply mark the staff as people with additional access to the workings of the site who are available to try to help you resolve any forum-related issues.

Moving on...

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
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City: Vidalia
RULE 4

Rule 4 wrote:
Sig pics are allowed. Keep them _small_, clean, and inoffensive. Yes, they can double as links. Sig 'blurbs' are allowed as well. Keep them short-- three lines, four lines-- fine. No more than five lines.


The original rationale for this remains: keep them small enough to not be irritating-- particularly when they appear ten times in a given thread-- and small enough not to cause any load slow-down. The smaller and simpler, the better.

"Keep it clean" goes right back to being civil: you don't know who you're speaking in front of, or who it will be in front of, as it will remain on this board effectively forever.

Beyond that, it's likely best to just reprint the original rationale:

Duke wrote:
Okay, folks.

I didn;t see it before, but I have seen the fallout from other sigs, and had to endure them.

As a dial-up user myself, I personally way-hate huge sigs, particularly when they are saved in "no way in all creation can a human eye discern all the possible stored pixels in this image" resolution. And more so when they are large enough to make the entire thread more than one screen wide. Nothing quite as fun as having to scroll back and forth for every single line, particularly when you are on dial-up, your provider's hardware is hosting way too many connections, and as a moderator you have to read every single word written on the entire board...

That, and it always makes me feel twice as bad for Howard-- he's on Web TV, for Pete's sake!

I have threatened for a long time to codify a set of posting rules and etiquette, but have _always_ put it off simply because it seems so insulting to have to do that for such an exemplary group of folks. Really-- surf around and try out a few other forums. You guys are the best there is, period: Polite, patient, generous, well-mannered and well-spoken.

But here it is, Rule #1:
Sig files and Sig pics are allowed, so long as they are no larger than 160 pixels by 600 pixels. Call that roughly ten lines high of default size 10 font. Hercman is excepted, because by the time he got that thing down that narrow, it would be 1/4 inch tall. That, and it isn't so high-rez that it takes all day to load. If you want it up there, it falls entirely up to you to get it right.

If you aren't sure how it is going to look, post it and check it. If it is too big, then use the edit button and re-size it.

Further, whenever possible, a signature picture should be in the lowest resolution that will still provide a crisp, clean image. I don't want you to have a crappy pic; I just don't want anyone wrecking everyone else's Surfmaine Experience. Even if you can't see all the data bits that go into high-rez, your computer still has to read them, and it can't do it any faster than you modem processes it.

Signature text should be no more than four lines-- but don't by any means feel that you have to use them all!

Anyone who posts a signature pic that does not fall into these dimensions will recieve a PM as soon as it is discovered by a moderator. If the sig isn't corrected by the same time the next day, it will be removed by a moderator. REMEMBER, FOLKS: The only way to remove a sig is to remove the entire account. You will have to start all over again!

After that, appologies to the forum in general will be accepted; whining will not.


Now obviously, this constraint is for signatures-- the stuff that you post regularly as a part of your personal style. Pictures inserted as a part of a post ("look at this new bike I found" or "Don't you wish you could go here?" or that kind of stuff)--- stuff that is topic-specifc or post specifc--- stuff that is _not_ part of your regular sig, is more or less exempt, as long as you an fit it inside the default width of the post space, and at least _try_ to get it as low rez as is feasible.



No more discussion.

The next time this comes up, they are all going, period.


Yes; I know-- a lot of that is dated. But references notwithstanding, the rationale is still valid. As stated above, abuse of sig pics will result in the option to install them being turned off across the board.

Sig "blurbs:" the actual 'signature' part, the place where people like to put salutations, quotes, vanity boards, etc, that will appear under each post they make.

Yes; they're welcome here, but again: stay within the rules of decency and family-friendliness. Sig blurbs can be no longer than five lines. We've had serious goofiness with these things in the past. This is a place for a tagline; you want to write a biography, go write a biography. You want to list every vehicle you own, or have ever owned, or plan to own-- you want to list every semi-noticeable achievement in your life, start a blog. Best I can tell, self-aggrandizing is pretty much what those things are for anyway.

Got a motorcycle with two hundred-odd bolt-on "performance" or "custom" pieces (you know: custom. Unique. Available only to people with a checkbook or credit card. Very select group. ;) )? Make an entry in the Garage.

Here, you get five lines. Five lines. Can't fit it into five lines? Come up with something else or leave it be.

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:15 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
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City: Vidalia
RULE 5

Rule 5 wrote:
Sig links. Yes; you can have them. Sig links can be used to advertise your _non commercial_ web-site(s). They count against your 'sig blurb' five-line limit. Remember: NON-COMMERCIAL!



If you've found this post via clicking a sig link, this is the rule that sig link was breaking. If you found this post via clicking your own sig link-- well that doesn't really change anything; this is the rule you were breaking. If you were breaking it because you didn't bother reading the rules of the board before running around willy-nilly, that's no one else's fault but your own. If you have read the rules and opted to break them anyway, get out. You're a spammer, a telemarketer, and a complete waste of the pleasure your parents derived in your creation. The next time you're in traffic, aim for a cliff. The world will be a better place without you.

Originally, I allowed one link in the sig blurb. However, several of our members have a page or two of their own, as well as a favorite non-commercial site (such as another related forum) that they would like to invite others to peruse, so I lightened up a bit; I now allow you to use as much of your sig line allowance as you'd like. Given that you can, if you're so inclined, turn your sig pic into a link (as is mine, MR's, and a couple of others), you can _technically_ get an extra link in there.

Why the tight restriction? For one, it keeps clutter low. For another, it helps to curb the spambot problem as well as the sock-puppet problem. And thirdly, it helps to enforce the "non-commercial" part of the rules.


Here's the short version on the 'links to commercial sites' thing:
One, it's rude. All expenses related to this forum are paid out of pocket by the owners; we don't do it so that you can get free advertising for yourself or some store you really like. That part of it goes back to being decent to other people.

The other part of this is pretty simple:

This is my board. It is housed on DJ's server space, at DJ's leisure, making it every bit as much DJ's board as it is mine; if technical know-how and actual physical ownership of the hardware is a measure of ownership, than it is actually _more_ DJ's board than it is mine. Honestly, were it not for the years of work I have put into this place, I would likely renounce ownership completely, given that DJ has final say over the life and death of it in its current incarnation.

But I digress. Dj's server space is a job-perk of sorts; the space resides on a commercial server.

This board has been through three incarnations, and an amazing amount of trouble over the years, and hundreds upon hundreds of man-hours have gone into simply keeping it alive on more than one occasion.

As I said, DJ's space resides on a commercial server. There is absolutely no way that I am going to allow any possible conflict of interest between some jackass's desire for 'free advertising' and the common decency of not competing with the ultimate owners of our server, or even making them question the possibility that we are competing. The member will lose every time. I'm not being hard-hearted; I am thinking of the two thousand other members who enjoy this site versus the one with the desire to get an advertisement on the web.

Until we actually own a server (Long way off; I've priced those things! :shock: ), this rule is _not_ going to change. Don't bother asking.

Yes; we have a section that reviews merchants that members have used in the past, and many of them provide links. This is set-up so as to be obviously unsolicited; it is filled _exclusively_ with feedback of _members_ of this board and no actual advertising.

Yes; we recommend above all other merchants Jack's Rebel Warehouse. Again, this is based entirely on member feedback, and the endorsements are made entirely by members. In fact, I have recently scrapped a plan to put a permanent graphic link (using a copy of his business card) to his site. I scrapped it for the same reasons I don't allow commercial links in the sig blurb: there is a potential for perceived conflict that can jeopardize our welcome on this server.


So what does that have to do with a link maximum? As I said, the minimum helps keep the clutter down. Further, it puts members with several "I want to link to this" choices in kind of a tight: what's more important? The neat stuff you've got on your personal site, or getting a plug in for your buddy's Hand-whittled keister cleaners?

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:16 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
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City: Vidalia
RULE 6

Rule 6 wrote:
The Permissions for allowing you to list a website on your profile were turned off for some time. They are back on. Again, you can list your non-commercial website. Any abuse of this by any member will result in these permissions being turned off across the board.


That's pretty much what it says. The non-commercial aspect is well-explained in the rationale for Rule 5. If it escapes you right now, then take a minute to review it in that rationale.

If you got to this post following another member's www link at the bottom of a post, then you know they were busted ;)

If you got to this post following your own link at the bottom of a post, I don't want to hear a cussed thing. I mean, I can't believe that as important as this is to the survival of this board, you're stupid enough to think we're not checking.

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:16 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
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City: Vidalia
Rule 7

Rule 7 wrote:
Imbedded pictures. Feel free to post any relevant pictures in your posts. We do not host them; you will need to handle that on your end. All pictures must adhere to the policy of decency and family-friendliness.



This is also pretty simple. Like most of our rules, it can be traced right back to 'keep it polite, and keep it clean.'

Pictures that violate the rules open up a whole new can of worms, what with that "worth a thousand words' thing going in their favor. Pictures that violate the rules are a really fast ticket to getting booted out of here forever, period. I like to believe, in spite of the mountain of evidence against me, that everyone has the sense enough to know what's appropriate to a family-friendly environment. Therefore, I don't figure you need any warnings after a violation. Thus, we're going to go straight for termination.

This rule applies to the Garage as well, at least as long as it's functional. So far, it's looking like after the software upgrade we'll be losing the Garage. Again, pictures there shouldn't need a warning either, what with the garage being a place specifically for your vehicles and vehicle-related gear. We'd prefer _bikes_ and _bike related_ gear, in particular _Rebels_ and _Rebel related_ gear, but hey-- we're not entirely heartless, either.

Again, post something in violation of the policies or traditions in the Garage, and you're just as gone as if you'd posted it in text.

And, for the hard-of-thinking:

Don't link to it, either!

Yes, there are graphic or grotesque images related to our hobby. Don't post them here. With proper warnings, they can be linked to, but not posted directly in-thread. These things are relevant, after all. But make sure it's relevant. If it's just something to be obscene: well, we'll irk you the way you irked us.

_________________
Image
Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:34 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
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City: Vidalia
Rule 8

Rule 8 wrote:
Imbedded links must fit within the default width of the text windows. Any links that widen the screen to the point of requiring side-scrolling to read the thread will be crippled until they fit the screen. e-Bay link junkies, this means you!



I know that this seems really simple, but it's just astounding how hard it seems to be to follow. It's been an actual written-down-and-posted rule for several years at this point. And, like so many of our other rules, it's based on simple courtesy to the other members of this board.

An internet address has no spaces in it; we all know that. Text-wrap defaults so that it only wraps at a space or a hyphen. We all know that, too. Taken together, that means that a link won't text wrap. Instead, the text window will widen until the entire link is contained on a single line. This will happen even if the text window must extend beyond the screen's edge.

Sadly, the widening is not constrained to that single line; the entire thread will spread itself out until it fills the new, wider version of the text box.

This means endless back-and-forth scrolling to read each line of the entire thread. Of course, that doesn't mention the irritation of tracking the thought while you're scrolling to and fro, nor does it mention those computer set-ups (like the ones I use at work) that have no GUI interface, (that means 'no mouse') and requires multiple button inputs for each scroll.


In the past, I have gone to a great deal of trouble to edit each and every one of those I found by adding four button presses and the word "Link."

But given the volume of such links anymore, I'm done doing that. It takes up too much time I could spend doing things like enjoying the other two-hundred odd posts from that same day, or -- even better-- something away from the computer.

Now let's do some math:

It takes roughly a minute, sometimes a bit more, depending on the computer and what the server's up to--- to 'properly' edit such a link. I can have to edit thirty a day on a busy day; more if some knothead ends up quoting the cussed things four or five times (Quotes don't auto-correct; the quote has to be edited separately).

It takes about four seconds to open an edit and erase half the link. Granted, it breaks the link, but again: when the rules are violated and a previously-announced and thoroughly-described corrective action it taken, who is to blame for the results?

Therefore:

Any links that widen the screen to the point of requiring side-scrolling to read the thread will be crippled until they fit the screen. They won't work anymore, but realistically, this is the hundred-and-somethingth time I've asked for adherence to this policy. I no longer have a single shred of guilt over enforcing it. And before protesting ignorance, remember who decided to start posting without bothering to check the rules.

And because history has taught me that this is actually necessary:


eBay link junkies: this especially means you.

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:37 pm 
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City: Vidalia
Rule 9

Rule 9 wrote:
Remember that this place has been here for a long time. It has a culture and traditions. Respect them; they are a part of what brought you to this board instead of one of the others.

Respect other members by treating each other with decency and understanding that they are real people, not figments of the computer here to amuse you.


Keep in mind the discussion above: This board is, above all else, to remain family-friendly, nanny-bot approved, and generally considerable as a "safe" site for anyone of any age that could reasonably be expected to work a keyboard.

Traditionally, we don't allow trolling, flaming, or abusive behavior. This has recently begun to become a problem again, particularly abusive behavior. Let's face facts:
We've got a huge member base, and a large percentage of our active members are extremely skilled, competent, and willing to share what they know with anyone who asks.

We've also got a huge database at this point, and realistically, there is enough data in there that likely one would be hard pressed to add something truly 'new and unique' as it pertains to the Honda Rebel, riding technique, or gear in general. Frankly, at this point, it's entirely possible to answer each and every question asked in the last couple of years with a well-aimed link to some other part of the forum.

What I'm saying is this:

I want your participation, I encourage your participation. But absolutely _no one's_ participation is worth putting up with disrespectful or abusive behavior. Not only does it work against my goals for this forum, it works against every member on this forum who came here to share.

You want to be a net bully or just a general schmuck who can't pass up the chance to slam someone, this is your notice: go away. We're not going to dry up and blow away without you.

Same goes with vulgarity, profanity, etc:
We're not going to dry up and blow away without you, either.

When someone posts a question, comment, picture, whatever-- when someone makes a post:

You've got four possible options:
Ignore it.
Read it and ignore it.
Read it and offer a positive exchange of some sort.
Read it and respond with a ration of diaper squeezins.


There are three choices up there that are perfectly fine. Honestly, the fact that someone would go to the effort to say something negative says more about themselves than anything they could possibly say about another post. Diaper squeezins are not allowed, and the crackdown re-commences now.

Let's be completely clear here:

This includes such things as "Rebel Joe answered you like a total twerp. I'll tell you the _right_ way..."

Remember that two of the options above include the phrase "ignore it." In fact, one of those choices is _nothing but_ the phrase "ignore it." If you feel that you want to offer an additional, or better, or whatever-- answer, then offer it. Just put it out there.

No one is _ever_ obligated to answer; if you can't answer in a courteous fashion, then don't answer. Someone else will be along eventually, and will likely be in a better mood than you are. No pressure; you don't have to feel as if there is.

Again, _no one_ is obligated to answer. This works the other way, too. If you have a question, you have three options:

Post your question.
Search for your question
Randomly start reading and hope you luck across an answer to your question.

All of these are completely welcome. However, use a little brain power. No one here works for you. No one here is obligated to do _anything_ other than to follow the rules. Just because a large number of questions get answered in a relatively short time doesn't mean that yours will. It's entirely possible that no one has read your question yet, or that no one who knows the answer has read your question yet. It may even be that one has come along with the right combination of 'has read your question,' 'knows the answer,' and 'has time and inclination to post an answer.'

Repeated bumps in the space of a few minutes is insulting; it implies that everyone here exists for you. The easiest way to correct that is, of course, to disprove it by erasing your account so that effectively, you don't exist here at all. It's not likely to come to that for a few bumps in a very short period of time, so long as you understand that you're being a complete jerk.

However, demands for answers, insults for lack of an answer, etc--

oh yeah. You're going away. You want in, then you play be the rules. It's really simple. Suppose you never get an answer. It might be because no one who has read your question knows the answer. A bump is perfectly understandable after a reasonable amount of time (say a few hours). And if you bump and there is no answer, then it's safe to say that no one can help you.

If you rant about the "lack of service" (seriously; we've had people do that :roll: ), then it's safe to say that you didn't get an answer because you're absolutely right: no one likes you, and we are all not-so-secretly hoping you fail. Either way, no one owed you anything, and your behavior has simply justified them complete lack of interest in you. Go away.


Moving on with respect:

Arguing, flaming, calling someone out-- it's all respect, remember? Don't do it.

Respect your hosts. That would be DJ, me, and the rest of the staff. No one expects kowtowing; that would be extremely obnoxious. Just remember that you are in _our_ house here; your house is on the other side of the screen. I've said it before:

Duke wrote:
I am not big on censorship. It bothers me to pull posts. But there are those that just won't let me be hospitable to them without coming into my house and attacking my guests. This is not only juvenile, but downright disrespectful to those of us-- not just the mods, but the other members of this forum-- who dedicate a great deal of time to making this "the" place to go for kicking back with other Rebel riders.

I am cussed tired of it. I have had too many muddy prints on my carpets, and too many empty bottles on my porch. No more. If you can't come in here and be civil to all the other members of this forum _ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the time that you are here, feel free to not come in. Ninety-nine percent won't cut it. You can try it, but don't be surprised if one percent of your posts come up missing.


Respect yourself a bit as well. Yeah-- gotcha; it's a rule. Respect yourself. If you present yourself as a trashy gutter snipe, well that's what we see. Newsflash: most adults aren't going "woah! Hey, that's cool! Trashy gutter snipe!" Most grown ups just feel real sorry for you, and hope you find the help you need. Sorry; now you know. You don't have to be educated; you don't have to speak well or type well-- you just need to have a little dignity.

Fine; that last one's minor, but occasionally we'll get some short-timer Fang Banger in here who hasn't really accepted that the only reason they went 'goth' was because the didn't have the waistline or cheekbones to go Britney Spears. It's just sad. I hope they get the help they need...

You don't even have to speak English well-- most online interpreters can at least get your point across, particularly if you use simple sentences. Granted, that's not going to help you much to understand what I said here, seeing as how a translation of this whole post will likely be hilariously confusing...

Though I will say this one:

AbsltlE n0 txt spk. Not only is it goobledy-gook to read, and somewhat more difficult to actually type than real words, and --

well, actually, there are lots of reasons to go on about that mess, but the most important one goes back to tradition and respect: we don't do that here because it's some kind of irritating to try to wade through.

Actually, that one might warrant its own separate entry:

No text speak! That garbage _will_ be wiped as soon as it's found, period; no exceptions. There are a couple of reasons for that, actually:

1) It's a nuisance to wade through.

2) Not everyone hanging out here speaks the same language you do. It's incomprehensible gibberish to those of us that do, and it's far worse to someone who is struggling with the language to begin with. It also denies them the use of online translation services, as it's utter nonsense going in, and nothing will come out.

You want to sound like a moron, get a Facebook page and take pictures of your breakfast. It doesn't fly here.

_________________
Image
Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:39 pm 
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Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
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City: Vidalia
Rule 10:

Rule 10 wrote:
Learn to use the Search function. No; there's nothing wrong with asking questions-- it's encouraged. But asking a question ten times in five sections and nine threads and then getting all bent out of shape because you don't have an answer in four minutes-- _that's_ rude. And a Search may have given you the answer with less effort.


No; there's nothing wrong with asking questions-- it's encouraged. But asking a question ten times in five sections and nine threads and getting all bent out of shape because you don't have an answer in four minutes-- _that's_ rude. And a search may have given you the answer with less effort.

First off:
Learn to use the Search function. This is really more for you than it is for anyone else, as no one is ever obligated to give any kind of answer at all. As stated in some of the above Rules Rationales, most questions are asked repeatedly: oil, chain, tires, exhaust, performance mods, seat questions, saddle bags, waving-- oh, Dear God the waving :roll:-- , mileage, etc...

Anyway, all the common questions-- all six hundred thousand eight hundred and forty two of them-- have been asked before. I promise. In fact, several hundred of the most unusual questions have been asked before-- many, many times.

Just like any other participation, asking questions is welcome, and encouraged, but if you want an answer right now, right away, well then the Search function is there just for that. Yes; we all know that getting anything out of it takes a bit of practice. That's why I included very specifically the phrase "Learn to use the Search function." Because, just like learning to ride, it takes practice.

Though if you don't like that, you can actually search the forum with most any other search engine, such as Google, Ask, etc-- simply limit the 'hits' to our domain name; that helps a lot if you've not got the hang of the kind of buggy built-in.

If you don't get an answer, wait. Or Search. Either way. Additional posts that demand answers or berate folks for not answering... well, thanks for playing. Have a nice life. Elsewhere. Seeyabye. All that jazz.
That one goes back to respect as well. See how that works? ;)

Multiposting is just rude, period.

I have gone to great lengths to try to create a 'place for everything' kind of layout on the main board. Yes, it could be far more granular, but I wanted to keep the main layout as clean and simple as possible while still providing some division of topics and a bit of flavor. I've even cut some of the flavor to get everything condensed to a single screen.

With that in mind, _try_ to find the single most appropriate place for your post-- the _one_ single most appropriate place. Don't fret if you're not sure; just make some kind of effort, and go from there. If it's better suited for another section, then a moderator will move it. A link will remain in the original area for a short time. This is not disciplinary; it's just a bit of house cleaning; don't take offense at it.

However, posting the same thing in more than one place is doubly-insulting: for one, it suggests that there is something so extremely special about you that you _must_ be answered, now and at all costs. Secondly, it suggests that you feel everyone else is so stupid as to be unable to find a brand new post when they log in.


It does have a nice double-edge, however: it means that should you get any answers, you're going to have to scour the board for all of them, as no one else is going to post it in each identical thread.


But don't fret-- I'm going to save you that hassle by removing all of them. Think of it as a clean slate: a chance to start all over again and do it in keeping with the rules of this board. ;)

That's ten. Just a few more to go. :lol:

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:40 pm 
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Rule 11

Rule 11 wrote:
Discussion is great; it's how learning is done. Arguing, flaming-- not so much. You want to pick a fight, go elsewhere. You have a personal issue, resolve it personally: PM, E-mail, etc. Ignore each other, or go away. Whatever works. It doesn't belong here, period. It's insulting to every other member of this board. On a related note, announcing an outraged or indignant "PM sent!" is equally irritating. We didn't want to see the argument in the first place; we don't care that you can't let it go.



You want to pick a fight, go elsewhere. You have a personal issue, resolve it personally: PM, E-mail, etc. Ignore each other, or go away. Whatever works. It doesn't belong here, period. It's insulting to every other member of this board.

Plain and simple:

There are two core types of individuals on this board: Those that have come here seeking advice, and those that come here willing to help where they can. Often times, any one person is in both of those camps.

They are welcome here, always.

There are, looked at differently, two other core groups:

Those that came here because they want to share something, and those who came here to glean what is being shared.

A different take on the first two groups? Probably, but this way we are also including those who who have learned, or at least believe that they have learned, all that we can offer, but still come here because they enjoy the environment here, or have come to really enjoy interacting with other members.

There are those who come here to post about rides they have taken or are planning to take, or perhaps to recruit for rides of their own. Maybe the just want to see if there's any recruiting they might be interested in.

But no matter how you look at it, it all boils down to these people came here-- whatever the motivation is at that moment-- because they enjoy being here.

Why would they like it here? What have we done to attract them?

Well, like any other group, we attract those who are similar to the group we maintain. If you've any history here, or if you've come this far in the rules, then you know that what we maintain is a clean, family-friendly, flame-free environment.

Do make sure it stays that way. ;)

No one enjoys being hassled. No one. Even World of Warcraft players can be distracted (though it usually takes a hammer to the monitor and fire on bits of their clothing).

Moreover, no one enjoys watching other people be hassled.

Seriously--

when was the last time you were at a restaurant, saw to people get into a heated debate, and called all your friends to come see it?

Okay, before we go too much further:

If you actually _have_ done this, don't bother reading any further. There's no point, as the rules don't matter much now, because you will _not_ fit in here, and will wear out your welcome in no time. It's in your nature to be asinine.

I don't know what it is--
it's more common on the internet than it _ever_ was in 'real life.' My own theory is that it is a combination of being tucked safely at home, unreachable for repercussion, and having no face, no address, no 'here's where I work' available to the rest of the world. I don't know-- it's just a theory.

I call it 'the Spine of Anonymous Steel.' It's a psychological plague of sorts. All of a sudden, otherwise perfectly rational people will leap to the chance to insult, deride, and generally annoy their chosen mark whenever they feel the need. And why not? If no one knows exactly _where_ in Baltimore you are, what are the odds they're going to bash your nose in, right? Why not be a jerk?

And for some reason, they do it right in the middle of the board, laying it all out in public for the other two thousand of us to be annoyed by.

You know what's worse?

They build this weird psychological justification up-- they convince themselves that everyone else is not only pleased with this action, but secretly wishing they themselves had the steadfast nerves and moral conviction and courage to do the same...

I cannot tell you just HOW AMAZINGLY _SAD_ that is! I just can't! Some armchair internet peruser who has suddenly realized that he is in fact the reincarnation of Superman, doing what only he and no one else is capable of...

So to help ol' Superman rediscover his inner Clark Kent, let's lay some facts on the table:

_YOU_ are the problem. Yes, _you_, Superman.

So someone said something that got your goat. Ask them about it, or ignore it. You are NOT doing ANYONE a service by deciding "you know, I should say something insulting or derisive or put them in their place, in order to protect the honor of this place!" You're not a super hero; you're a moron.

They said something you felt needed your heroic intervention? Fine. Did you heroically intervene? You did? Then YOU are the problem!

It's not civil; it's not even remotely polite. And it's in no way welcome here. Why? Well:

Remember that part up above-- that part about being civil? That part about ignoring it or at least shutting up about it?
You FAILED!!!


You failed to follow the one single most important rule; the one rule that keeps the board clean and friendly.

Sure-- if you have an issue with someone, ask them about it. Find out if there's a misunderstanding, or what happened.

Come in here with sixguns blazing and all we see is another kid with a water pistol full of tears. It's SAD!

You can't win. You can't win because of the very reason that you discovered your Spine of Anonymous Steel--- your mark is every bit as safely tucked into a cradle as you are, little boy. And of course, since you're _both_ the _real_ Superman, you are _both_ destined to emerge victorious, vanquish the evil-doer, and go home to Margo Kidder (like I wouldn't rather hurl myself into the sun. Ugh).

So neither of you stops until a mod steps in---

the mods, by the way, are _not_ Superman. The admin is _not_ Superman. And because of this, we are condemned to watch your bile stack up until we will gladly trade knee-boots for SCUBA gear and a ladder. We are not Superman because we are trapped here in the _real_ world, along with everyone else.

Let's put this into real world perspective:

Superman = fantasy. Specifically, children's fantasy.
"I am Superman" = "I am an idiot with serious psychological issues"

"But Duke-! How can you say that?"

Well, it's easy if it's true. Here; I found some other people just like you:

http://www.oddee.com/item_87762.aspx

http://articles.citypages.com/2008-01-1 ... life/full/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_superhero

You can google about or link hop from there.

Okay... Done reading? Good-- it's test time!

What did all these people have in common?

If you are in fact Superman, gifted with the Spine of Anonymous Steel, you likely said "they are all doing the right thing. They are all helping. They are all good guys."

And that's because you're in the internet Superman.

Here's what the rest of us see:

They're all completely cracked! They are all nuts!

Yes, they're nice people who want to do good things. Let's look at that woman who walks drunk girls home.

Is she doing the right thing? Dressing up like a San Francisco party boy, grabbing a drunk girl by the elbow, and walking her home? Is she?

"Well of course she is! That's what Superman would do!"

Well the _real_ world sees this:

Hey, look! A bright red beacon screaming "this woman is drunk and defenseless, and I am unarmed and relying on my reputation as a super-escort for drunk girls to get us home safely! Here we are, muggers! Here we are, rapists! Here we are! Look! Come get us!"

No--

She is _not_ doing the right thing! Sure, she _wants_ to--

Realy: how many more young drunk girls are getting home safer while the predators are distracted, looking for her and her latest charge?

Does she want to do something? How about trying to work out a program with local bars and taxi services? Some kind of special reduced fare should the bar tender call in a Code:Bimbo or something like that?
She could help two dozen women each and every night!

Maybe she could speak on campuses, organize group watch policies; get her local churches involved--

she could help a hundred women a night!

Instead, she decides to become a signal beacon to the predators: "Hey! I found a fresh one! Come and get it!"

Yes, I said unarmed-- Pepper spray is useless against wrap-around glasses, and I walk with a cane. Right off the bat, my crippled behind is totally equipped to take down your superwoman. (not that I would, mind you; just showing you how much danger she is putting her charges in).


And that's you, Superman--

that's you and your Spine of Anonymous Steel--
doing the absolute worst possible thing in the name of being our hero.

Let's look at what you're actually doing:

You're breaking the most important rule of the board: be civil.

You're violating the trust of the other members: the idea that another member will not attack you. You're not defending anyone, you idiot! You are actively attacking another member, and that's what the other two thousand are seeing: "Hey! Any schmuck can deride, insult, or persecute us whenever he feels like it. And since we all know it takes a crazy person to want to anyway, well, there's really no way I can possibly feel safe here, knowing that crazy people are welcome. It's probably best if I just don't participate here at all."

You're ruining the reason they came here: a peaceful, welcoming, friendly environment.

You're making yourself -- well, no. You are who you are. You are just showing us that you = superman = complete idiot with serious psychological issues. Prove away! ;)

You are increasing the violations from the other side as, since he is also Superman = completely idiot with serious psychological issues, he will be just as compelled as you to continue on until he wins. But he won't win. Because you're Superman. You'll keep going till you prove it, too. And he won't back down. Because he's Superman. He'll keep going till he proves it, too. But you know that, because you're Superman. You can outlast him. You can prove him wrong. But you can't, because he's Superman. And he'll make you understand that, even if he's the last man standing on the whole internet. But even then, he's going to have to take on you, because you're Superman, and you'll gladly destroy this place and all the others to keep him from doing it. He's going to learn that. You're going to teach it to him. But it's going to take an eternity, because he's Superman, and he's here to keep fighting the good fight as long as you. That's okay. He didn't count on coming up against you, did he, Superman? You'll show him...

See how this goes?

Doubt it? Really? You don't remember the last time you did it and the whole thread got wiped? Or the time before that, and we had to kill a half-dozen threads, because Superman will find you no matter where you are? You don't? Really? Get help, Clark. Please.

See where this is going?

It's not like the internet jokes, with the pictures of the kids yelling at mules-- no. It's not cute at all. It's something that you really, truly should be concerned about! It is a sign that there really _is_ something deeply, powerfully wrong with you and that if you care about yourself _at all_ then you really should get help IMMEDIATELY!!! For the love of everything you hold dear, get help!


There's a reason the rules say "don't do this." It's because you can't do it in private. Batman never fought anybody in the cave-- he had to go out in the streets and do it in front of everyone, where the whole world could see how mighty he was.

And the whole world got showered with broken glass, bits of debris, caught up in bomb blasts, whatever.

You're just trashing up the board, wrecking everyone else's good time, and generally doing all those things that Superman (and probably even Super walk-drunk-women-home Girl) would most assuredly not approve of.

Stop it.

Stop it, or let it be stopped for you.

Either way, it's going to end.



On a related note, announcing an outraged or indignant "PM sent!" is equally irritating. We didn't want to see the argument in the first place; we don't care that you can't let it go.

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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:31 pm 
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Rule 12

Rule 12 wrote:
Multiple postings. There are several subsections of this forum. Decide which is most appropriate for your comment or question and post it there. Post it _once_. Multiple posts will be removed. A moderator may move your post to a different section. This is not disciplinary; it's organizational. So long as you're trying, you're fine. Posting the same post in multiple threads, however, will result in all of them being deleted. When you decide to ignore this rule and make multiple cross-postings anyway, remember this:

I've got enough to do here with the regular workload. The fastest way in the world to irritate me is duplicate posts across multiple forums. When found, _all_ copies will be deleted (unless I am in an _extremely_ generous mood). This includes any answers you might not have read yet. Don't whine about it: you couldn't give me the simple respect of following a simple rule; what do you expect in return?


This one is really easy to understand, I think.

But hey, for the hard of thinking out there, let's break it down.

First and foremost, this place is free to you or anyone else. So long as you can play be the rules, then hey-- welcome aboard ;) Absolutely no garauntee has been made to you or to anyone else that your question can or will be answered here. Not one promise. The only thing you've been promised is that, so long as it's within the rules, you can post it here and hope for the best.

Second, one of the most important principles guiding this board is that _everyone_ is here on an equal footing, newbie and old hand alike. And because of that, no one is going to be treated any different from anyone else, save on the basis of their relationships with individuals on the board. That is to say, if you've offended someone, don't expect them to answer you, and if you've befriended someone, then likely your friends will be looking out for you a bit. Not a wonderful situation, but completely human ;).

Posting your question across two or three or ten forums is an insult, period. First off, it says "I am so incredibly important that I must clog up the board with this question in my quest for an answer." Secondly, it says "Since you are all far too stupid to find a brand new post (which are marked when you log on), I'd best scatter it across the entire room to make sure you simpletons can find it."

Given that, why would you think anyone would _want_ to answer?

So how do we solve this problem? Simple! Multiple posts will be removed. I don't care if it was posted in ten places, or two; it was posted in more than one. I don't care if one or more of them had been answered. They will _all_ be removed. It's not an attack on you; it's me trying to help you out: think of it as a chance to re-examine your insult to the other members and start over with a fresh slate ;). Think of it as a chance to have all the answers contained in a single thread, so that you don't have to crawl the entire board, finding all your posts, looking for answers.

That's the social answer. Here are the behind the scenes answers:


Could I merge them into a single thread? Yes. Have I done it in the past? Yes. Why am I not doing it anymore? Well, when we had a handful of members, the issue came up once or twice a year. We only had four sub-sections then, as well. It wasn't that big a deal. Now we're breaking two thousand, and have many more sub-sections. Further, back then, I was a single man. Now I'm a husband and father of two with two jobs and far less time on my hands. That's the nice answer.

The less nice answer is that this has _always_ been a rule; you have had plenty of time to acquaint yourself with the rules, and I'm just tired of having to clean up after grown men and women who can't be bothered to even look at the rules. So there. :P ;)

A major behind-the-scenes issue with multi-thread repeat posts is just plain housekeeping. The forum has several sub-sections. Yes, there could be more, but in an effort to keep the index page clean and easy to follow, I opted for some broad categories to make it easier on folks. Find the _one_ that you think best suits your post, and make it there.

You see, from time to time, A moderator may move your post to a different section. This is not disciplinary; it's organizational. So long as you're trying, you're fine. Posting the same post in multiple threads, however, will result in all of them being deleted, answered or not.


NOTE:The only thing we ask on this front is that you _not_ start a new thread in the FAQ section. Cramming the FAQ with multiple versions of the same work, or with multiple "how do I" threads will reduce it's utility to the other members. Every now and again, a particularly shining thread or post will be moved by the staff into the FAQ, should it be deemed an excellent reference.

Because there is still a small problem with new threads being started in the FAQ, we will occasionally go on a 'house cleaning' through the FAQ and move stuff out. If it's still relevant, it gets put into an appropriate subsection. If it's just conversational, it gets deleted. Nothing personal; just trying to keep the FAQ useful to the membership.

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"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:51 am 
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Rule 13

Rule 13 wrote:
orbidden Topics:
Yes; we have them. Aside from the above-mentioned 'keep it clean' policies, there are topics that have proven too volatile over the years to allow discussion:
A: Religion
B: Ethnicicty
C: Politics
D: Helmet Laws (Helmets are fine for discussion; helmet _laws_ are not)


I wouldn't think that this one would need an explanation, but some folks seem to have a really hard time wrapping their heads around this concept, so let's have a quick recap about "freedom of speech" and how that applies to the internet:

If you are familiar with Rule One, then skip the quote. If you aren't, I'd encourage to to learn it, but the crux of how it relates to forbidden topics can be found in this expert from Rule One:

[quote"In the very first Rule for this board, Duke"]A lot of short-term members (those that drop in, make a few posts, and disappear, apparently forever) seem to have the same problem with this rule:

They protest with complaints of "free speech" and "censorship," and "public domain."

So let's first go over what those really mean:

Absolutely nothing.

At least, in the context of an internet forum. Right off the bat:
Free Speech is a right that guarantees your right to say anything you want, so long is it's not to deceive, libel, or incite violence, anywhere on any public property in the United States.

That's why it's meaningless here. It doesn't apply to any country that doesn't subscribe to it (yes; there are countries outside the US. Who knew?). The internet is there, too. There's only one internet. Get used to it being censored.

The second reason that "Free Speech" doesn't apply here:
it applies to any public property in the US. Assuming that, as we are on a US server and the site itself is the property of US citizens and is administrated and moderated by a group of Americans and one guy from American, Jr, might well make this site considerable as "American soil--"

hat does _not_ alter the fact that the site itself is Private Property. the entire internet is like that. Each and every site that you can navigate toward is _owned_, and is therefore private property.

"But I hurt in school that thuh innerweb iz publik propidy..."

What that means is that anyone-- any member of the public-- has the right to set up his own site on the internet, where he can establish his own rules, and allow people to do or say anything within the confine of his own rules (and the legality of the governing nation, etc).

That's what that means. It doesn't mean that my board is public property, and it doesn't mean that I can't disallow things that are offensive to me specifically or to the public in general. [/quote]

Here's the thing:

The main purpose of this board is education, but specifically education on three points:

*novice rider education about riding practices and gear selection

*novice wrench bender education about maintenance issues as they apply to the Honda Rebel and it's closely-related brethren. Additional information on on other models isn't guaranteed, but provided when available _and_ convenient for those able and willing to provide it.

*a place for people to learn about and discuss their rides, their bikes, and any of those above two items or share projects and experiences in a friendly environment.


Things that this board is _not_:

Your private blog. And that pretty well sums it up.

Now that doesn't mean that we don't enjoy your stories or your games or your ideas. It just means that this isn't the place for you to preach your "one true way of living" or your "final solution" for Utopia (unless it involves relocating all the politicians and lawyers to a planet with a lot less oxygen, in which case you have my complete support, but you still can't talk about it here ;) ).

Yes; in spite of overwhelming (and in hindsight, largely correct) opposition from a couple of sources, I installed the Off-Topic Lounge section. Originally it wasn't too bad, as it stayed largely on the thrust of the board, with a broader range of bikes and allowed postings about things like rallies, get-togethers, and mostly kept the topic-specific areas clean of stories and tangents.

Above all else, however, this place is a _friendly_ environment, and we don't need people screwing that up. The fastest way to screw that up is to pick a topic about which there is _no_ right answer.

Let me rephrase that for all the people who are still young enough to think that there really is a perfect political party, or a final solution to the formula of life, or that believe they have indisputable proof about what happens after we die:

No; you don't. There is _no_ right answer to any of that. We've tried every single political party as-yet conceived and at some point in history, we've tried every single form of government the human mind has yet to produce. To date, none have been without failing. No; just shut up. I'm not here to discuss that right now anyway. There is _no_ perfect answer, and if you think there is, you're completely wrong. Somebody somewhere will screw it up because the _only_ promise I can make you about humans is that there is no bottom to the depths of stupidity we can inflict on ourselves.

So let's look at a "no right answer" situation, just so we can all see what's going on here:

a really popular one on motorcycle boards is helmet laws. Don't even _think_ about discussing them here, beyond an acknowledgement that they exist in some places, not in others, and that they come in a wide variety. You can even discuss what meets the requirements, what doesn't, and how they vary from state to state, etc.

Well, actually, you can't. I mean, you are welcome to discuss all those things, but the fact is-- like I said before-- there is no limit to the amount of stupid that people can inflict on themselves, and accordingly, these conversations go down the crapper real fast. Why?

Politics. Invariably, someone is going to leap into a helmet thread and take a political stand: "Helmet laws should be mandatory everywhere!" or "Helmet laws are a lie!" or any other such bit of pointless irritation.

Why is it pointless? Because it's political. And because it's political, people are going to have a really strong belief in their position, and guess what? You're _not_ going to change that! Not now; not _ever_. If I thought for even a picosecond (you're welcome, Brent ;) ) that you would stop and listen to the rebuttal for your statement, I'd probably allow you to do it, but you and I and everyone else on earth knows that you won't. You've made up your mind, and all you're trying to do is convince other--

and here's the funny part--

EQUALLY HARD-HEADED individuals who think the exact opposite way that you do believe (just as strongly as you believe about yourself) that they are right and you are wrong.

And here's what makes it pointless:

They are every bit as hard-headed as you are, and they are _not_ going to change. Just as their rebuttal to your position will do NOTHING but make you less inclined to listen and more inclined to defend your position that much harder, so does your little crap fest do to them.

And it goes on and on and on and on until we yet again prove Godwin's Law and somebody ends up calling someone else a Nazi. Yeah. That's productive. :roll:

So forget it. They exist; we aknowledge they exist; we discuss what does and doesn't qualify; we discuss where they do or don't exist and in what degree.

But we _don't_ get into the politics of it. EVER. If you have a helmet law post that disappears, it might not be that you've crossed the line; you might have just gotten too close to it. You might have been simple "collateral damage" to a massive thread gutting. Either way, don't look for an apology because you now know why it happened.

How about religion?

Same problem. You can have one; you can tell us what it is. You can explain that you can or can't participate in something on this board because it violates or agrees with your beliefs.

But we're not getting into who is right, because when you get right down to it, until you actually die, you don't know anything more about it than anyone else, and it's a lot harder to come back and tell us about it. I don't want to hear this "I know mine is right because it's written down in a holy text," either. Do you really think that all the other guys don't have the exact same convictions, for the exact same reasons? That is, they know theirs is right because it's written down in a holy text. For that matter, someone else might know that his is right because it doesn't have a holy text, so it must come more naturally or something.

Again, you are _not_ going to change someone else's mind, and all you _are_ going to do-- just like the helmet law guys and the politics guys-- is make this place a lot less welcoming to anyone who disagrees with you. Fact is, it is _not_ your place to make _my_ guests feel unwelcome in _my_ house, period. Not now; not ever.

So what happens when one of these things gets started? An endless argument-- well, it's not really endless: eventually someone calls someone else a Nazi and in so doing claims victory (I know; I'd think it would be the other way around myself: by the time you compare an Amish journeyman to a camp of people who killed 60 million people in the largest act of genocide in human history and then spent fifty years pretending it didn't happen-- a group of people whose entire power structure was built on fear and hatred-- well, I'd have to say that you lose, and that you lose in the biggest way possible: by proving that you're a moron. But hey: since you're a moron, it probably _does_ seem like a victory, right?)

Nazis aren't welcome here, and people who can't tell the difference between their neighbors and actual Nazis are actually a lot worse! After all, if it weren't for this kind of mental midget, Nazis couldn't have happened in the first place. So go away; go far away. If you can still breathe, you haven't gone far enough away.


Politics in general:

If you don't like a law, going on the internet and complaining about it isn't going to do a cussed thing to fix it. Seriously. Google about for any hotbed political topic. Compare the number of complaints and attacks to the amount of repair that's been done to the law. Notice a pattern?

Of course not. Why? Because it's a stupid, stupid thing to do, and that's because no one is listening. If the internet were actually important, it would cost more and be taxed. Heavily. Honestly, when a politician thinks "internet," he's thinking "the largest delivery vector ever designed for pictures of naked people." After that he's thinking "I wish I could tax that commerce." After that, he's thinking "my God, anybody with a keyboard and a rudimentary understanding of fourth grade grammar can write a blog."

And that's it. You are _third_ in line, and you are in line behind pornography! Just how seriously can _anyone_ be expected to take that?

But barring that, here's a notion:

Lots of people have started lots of flame wars over politics by-- well by complaining about them on public-welcome (but _not_ public _owned_) forums like this one! Seriously! Spend a few afternoons browsing around the net between bouts of shopping and-- well, that other stuff you do out here.

There's another interesting fact that comes to light:
it doesn't work!

I know; I'm as shocked as you are! :shock: It seems that for twenty years or more, even back in the days of usenet, people have started screaming and poo-flinging in a fashion that would make monkeys green with envy, and to date, it absolutely _never_ has it worked!

Astounding!

Even more astounding:

They keep doing it! :shock:

I don't know about you cats, but my birth certificate came with an expiration date on it. It's in invisible ink, so I'm not sure what it actually is, but just knowing that it's there keeps me from enjoying the thought of wasting time. Now maybe there's something wrong with me, but when I try to do something, like most folks, I try the most obvious first. But when that doesn't work, I almost _never_ try THE EXACT SAME THING! I move on to something _different_. Obviously that's where the answer lies, right?

But if you just insist on talking about politics and solving all the world's problems through your superior ability to be the shout-iest person on a forum or the scream-iest person on the internet, then by all means, do so.

Elsewhere.

Start a blog. Call it "come see the moron.com" or something. I don't care. I only care that you don't do it here.


The forbidden topics list is kept in the streamlined rules thread, stickied in the major forums of this board. It is subject to updating as the need arrises. You won't be banned for trying to discuss them in a civil, non-political manner. Just don't be surprised if some monkey comes along and ends up ruining the thread to the point that it disappears.

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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Last edited by Duke on Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:28 pm 
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14) Posting about accidents

Rule 14 wrote:
osts About Accidents:

From time to time, Accidents will happen. It's not a pleasant experience, but remember that our primary purpose here is educating new riders to make them as prepared as possible for anything they may encounter. If you post details of an accident, it _will_ be taken as an invitation to analyze it and see what lessons there are to be learned. If you don't want to have that happen to your personal experience, no one will think any less of you. You can let us know that you don't want it to happen by _NOT_ posting details of the scenario.



I've had this one written up for a while, but every single time I went to post it, someone would have _just_ posted about an accident. In the interest of good taste, and so that no one would feel that they were being singled out, I would wait a couple of weeks. However, it never failed that as soon as I was ready to post it on the later date, someone would have _just_ posted about yet another accident. In fact, just this evening (having finished yet another "wait a few days" cycle) someone has yet again posted about another accident.

So I've opted to just add this disclaimer:

I don't necessarily mean you. I mean, I do mean you, in as much as you are someone who has posted about an accident, but I don't mean that I'm trying to apply the context of this rule against you, or call you out for not being aware of it.

As with all the previous rules, this one is nothing more than simply a codifying of Board Tradition whose time has come, given the overwhelming number of members we now have with no real link to the long-standing culture of this board.

You are perfectly welcome to post your personal experience with an accident in any appropriate section on this board. We are not trying to discourage the discussion of accidents: they are a very real fact of riding a motorcycle, and we would be doing not only a huge disservice to our less experienced riders, we would be running completely counter to our purpose here of offering sound advice to new riders.

HOWEVER---- (there's always one of those, isn't there? ;) ) you _must_ keep one thing in mind: we are _going_ to use it as an educational tool. If there is a a point of interest, or the perception of an error on your part, it will likely be pointed out or at least enquired about.

We know that it's often difficult to perceive your own mistakes, and it's equally difficult to admit to them even when you are aware of them. If you can't accept going in the possibility that someone might explain that exactly what went wrong was you and your reaction to the situation, then _please_ -- and I am asking nicely, because remember that you actually have this option, and availing yourself of it will prevent any hard feelings-- _please_ do not post your story.

Now that's not to say that you can't say something along the lines of "I was in an accident, but I'm okay" or "my brother was hit by a car and is currently in ICU waiting to see if he can keep his leg" (which, by the way, was my own story about my idiot brother whom I love very much but who has absolutely no business on a motorcycle in the first place), or "my cousin was killed today when he lost control of his bike." For whatever reason, a lot of people feel the need to tell us these things.

But if you can't handle having it analyzed, then _stop_ _right_ _there_. Don't go any further. Those who are so inclined and have the time to do so will give you the usual heart-felt condolences and best wishes. After all, we care ;) But once you start giving us the details of your accident, they _will_ be examined and studied and discussed and faults and failures will be found and suggested tactics will be offered for similar situations.

It's not-- let me repeat, it's _not_ because we think you're a fool or an idiot or anything else (unless you come off with that "I hadda lay'er down" crap. if you try that one, prepare to be beaten with the physics bat, and have the bloody goo thoroughly stirred with the logic stick, all the while being generally mocked. That is _nothing_ but an excuse in all but the most _ABSOLUTELY RARE_ conditions. You know: along the lines off "a semi truck fell from the sky ten feet in front of me, and I could either get decapitated or slide under it." Anything else: you did wrong, period. Don't even think that "a semi truck pulled out in front of me" is good enough, because they just don't move that Goddamned fast that you didn't see a house-sized vehicle looking for a hole in traffic.

Again, it's nothing against you _at all_.

What it _is_ is our primary purpose here: good advice to inexperienced riders: tips on staying alive. They might do you some good; they might not. It's been my experience that most people-- not all, but most-- when confronted with a mistake would rather make the same mistake fifteen, fifty, five-hundred times-- however many it takes to kill themselves-- than admit "you know, I might could have done better." So if you do garner something useful, that's great both for you, and for us, since it indicates an intelligent, open-minded person interested in helping himself and his fellow riders.

Not everyone is going to do the same things, therefore, not everyone is going to be in the same situations as anyone else. However, there is no matrix that tells us who is going to have what happen to them throughout their time on two wheels. As such, it is in their best interest to be prepared for as many situations as possible. Rather than subject them individually to these conditions ("Okay, you guys line up, get up to forty miles and hour, and I'll start the Winnebago..." ), it makes more sense to let them learn as much as possible from the examples of others who have been there already.

Since the ultimate goal of developing riding skills and techniques is to ensure that no rider ever finds himself in an accident, these incidents are both wonderful teaching tools and, if we're doing our jobs correctly, increasingly rare. ;) We are going to seize on them and use them as tools to help make them ever more rare.

Don't be offended. After all, you posted them out here for the world to see, and the world tends to do as it sees fit with such things. We don't mean it as any sort of derision or insult to you. We are simply taking our tools where we find them.

For those of you who do post their own stories, we really do want to thank you for your concern, for your ability to review yourselves, and for the generosity you are showing to other riders by offering them something from which they can learn. Thank you; it's a great service that you are performing.


Remember:

You are welcome to post about having had an accident. We are sympathetic above all else. But if you don't want it dissected and reviewed, then please: leave out the details. If we see details, we are going to take it as an invite to use your experience as a teaching tool for others. If we don't find them, we might ask, but if you specify that you "don't want to discuss it," we will totally respect that, too.

For those folks who _read_ accident stories:

There is no harm in asking for details, but if they specify that it's not a subject for discussion, then let it go. It's their life, and while they have a chance to help someone, it might be too traumatic personally to care to have a few dozen people re-enacting it in front of their eyes.

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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


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 Post subject: Re: The Rules, Rationales
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
Rule 15:

(Yes; it will get a nice header later; I just wanted to get this up during a period of time when no one has asked about or posted a source for the offending material. That would be tonight, it seems).


As noted in this thread, and in many, many others, we survive at the whim of our donated host space, and we do not want to do _anything_ to jeopardize their good will. On a lesser (to most folks, anyway) note: I make a good bit of supplementary income from my words and ideas, so I completely understand the importance of the concept of "intellectual property."

All too often, someone joins our board specifically to look for a place to get free repair manuals. Occasionally, we've even had people join specifically to post where such material can be found.

Don't do it. Don't post it, that is. You can ask all you want, and eventually someone will come along and kindly and courteously explain that we don't condone links to free copies of copyrighted material.

There are many reasons for this, a large number of which boil down to "even if you somehow just _know_ that _you_ can get away with it, the staff, myself-- and more importantly, our hosts-- can all be held legally accountable for allowing it to appear here, even if we didn't know it was out there. In short, it can cost a _lot_, in terms of time, money, and possibly the ability to move about freely.

As users, the most likely number one thing you'll want to know is that, to protect themselves, our hosts would be crazed not to dump us like we were radioactive. Thus, it can cost you, the casual user, the very existence of this board. If your motives are entirely self-centered, then focus on that one: you won't get to play here anymore, because this won't be here (or anywhere else) anymore.

Let me move along to explain that this is _not_ limited to the most common offense: various repair manuals for the Rebel. It includes all illegal copying and sharing of copyrighted material. If the person owning the copyright has made it freely available, then by all means, put up a link. However, make very sure, before you put the link up, that it is the person or persons, company, or other entity that actually _owns_ the copyright or at least the right to distribute it as they see fit with the blessing of the copyright owner(s).

To clear that up, let's say that Haynes has decided to farm out the distribution of their Rebel manual to another company, and they have decided that it shall remain freely available online for thirty days or something. That's fine. They've got the permission to do that.

Now let's say that you grabbed yourself a copy while it was up. This doesn't give you permission to distribute it. Seriously: it doesn't. No; I can't stop you from doing it, but you will _not_ do it here. Even if it's thirty-one days later, and someone asks "hey! Did you get a copy of that manual? Can I get a copy from you, because I missed the chance!"

Short answer? Not here, you can't. If you want to do something illegal, fine and dandy. That's between you and the other guy, but do it _off_ this board. No links, no attachments, no information of any kind will be allowed on this board if it leads back to an illegal breach of copyright.

Period.

How serious are we about this?

The first offense will see your link modified so that it leads to something embarrassing. Your mother sent us all those old pictures of you as a child standing up in the tub. We're making a collage as you read this.

There will be a private warning to you upon discovery of the first offense.

The second offense will result in a no-rebuttal, no-nonsense bannination. "Fool me twice" and all that there. It doesn't happen here. I don't have the time, money, or inclination to risk legal battles, nor does anyone else on this staff. Further, we will not risk losing this board by putting our hosts in a questionable legal position, nor will we let you do it. It's just plain rude.

We like it here.

_________________
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Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


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